Saturday, August 24, 2013

Slowest Start To A Hurricane Season On Record | Real Science

Interesting breakdown of the number of hurricanes per presidential term. Not too sure about the other items on the blog, but it is food for thought. Click title for link.

From yesterday: Ever wonder how traffic signals are controlled?

This was a tour sponsored by the Palm Beach County Planning Congress through the County's Intelligent Transportation System. It's part of the County's Engineering Department. It's a little on the geeky side, but it is fascinating what technology has allowed us to do remotely and quickly as it relates to traffic control. Did you know that there is over 520 miles of fiber optic cable that is used for cameras and signalization? And, we learned that the red-light cameras at some intersections are completely independent of this system.

There are three videos as part of this playlist - which lasts a little less than an hour and a half.

Here is a link to the applicable County webpage.
This is the control room below:

Flying over the Lake Worth beach...

Developer plans provides details for convention center hotel... | www.mypalmbeachpost.com

Click title for link. This is a long awaited addition to the Convention Center. Here are some details.
HILTON AT A GLANCE
HOTEL
Height: 143 feet (13 stories).
Area: 332,561 square feet.
Rooms: 403 (one presidential suite, two luxury suites, 28 other suites, 372 regular rooms with king bed or double queens).
Room area: minimum 353 square feet; average 414 square feet.
Ballrooms: one with 13,400 square feet and one with 6,270 square feet; plus 13 meeting rooms.
PARKING GARAGE
Height: 16 feet (two stories).
Area: 132,260 square feet.
Spaces: 423 (90 valet, 324 self, eight disabled, one reserved for hotel van).

Friday, August 23, 2013

Press Release: Delray Community Redevelopment Agency - New iPic Theater Slated for Downtown Delray

DELRAY BEACH, Fla.—The Delray Beach Community Redevelopment Agency has selected a proposal for a new office and entertainment complex, including an iPic Theater, for a highly sought after redevelopment site in the downtown core. The CRA Board awarded the Request for Proposals (RFP) for the Downtown Core Business District Fourth & Fifth Avenues Site to the theater project over three other proposals at its August 22, 2013 meeting.

The winning proposal, submitted by Delray Beach Holdings, LLC, calls for the creation of a 529-seat iPic Theater with 8 screens, 42,869 square-feet of Class A office space, 7,290 square-feet of retail space, and a 279-space parking garage. The project will create nearly 300 jobs, many of which will be professional positions. As many as 65 jobs will be created by iPic Entertainment, which plans to relocate its corporate headquarters from Boca Raton to occupy a portion of the new Delray Beach office space.

The Fourth & Fifth Avenues Site includes the Old Library Building on SE 4th Avenue, the Chamber of Commerce office building on SE 5th Avenue, and the adjacent public parking lot. Delray Beach Holdings, LLC offered a purchase price of $3.6 million for the 1.57-acre site, located about a half-block south of Atlantic Avenue in the downtown core.

The CRA is beginning contract negotiations with the developer to set the terms and conditions of the Purchase and Sale Agreement.  After finalizing the Agreement and obtaining city approvals, the developer estimates a 20-month construction period, with anticipated completion by 2016.

A copy of the Delray Beach Holdings, LLC proposal is available for download at http://bit.ly/YSjrZ7. For more information about the Delray Beach CRA, call the CRA office at (561) 276-8640. To learn more about other CRA projects and initiatives, visit the CRA website at www.delraycra.org.

Video coming...

NW ball fields, looking from the west taken by camera drone by James Stafford Photography - image exclusive to this blog.

Seems like someone else thinks they're a "charming, walkable, little beach village"

The ultimate home cinema: Convertible house unfolds in 90 minutes to turn into a 100-seater venue | Mail Online

Cool concept that is not out of the realm of possible in Lake Worth, don't you think? Click title for link to article and watch this video which shows how the "house" folds open to become a theater.

A1A: PARADISE DRIVE | www.mypalmbeachpost.com

Nice perspective on the highlights of driving down A1A from north to south in Palm Beach County. Click title for link. Bill and I have incorporated the link between Southern Boulevard and the Lake Worth bridge as one of our regular biking routes. The article mentions our Lake Worth Casino building and that it is "doubly" worth seeing after its renovation. There are other sights further south that you might want with which you might want to reacquaint yourself.

Thursday, August 22, 2013

With all this about the Greater Bay papers...

It's important to pause and review what we were promised as part of the city's beach project. Remember, the resulting project was to be everything that the Greater Bay plan wasn't. Click here for an article by Willie Howard which was published in September of 2010.

In it, we are assured that the new project - the one that was eventually built - would have "nearly 20 green features" including solar water heaters, use of natural lighting (besides windows?), a system that would recycle water from the air conditioning condensate and that the pool area could be used as a cistern. We were also assured that the building would only be $6 million, which would include $1 million in contingency monies if "unforeseen" conditions were met - like having to tear down the entire building? This is when the city was still talking about "restoration" or "re-building" and we all know that it was torn down.

Oh, and how we would pay back funds that the city borrowed from itself - with a bank loan. Anyway, in hindsight, we know that it turned out to be a very different project. And I hear there are still water issues with the building.

Gulf Stream millionaire challenging state attorney’s office... | www.mypalmbeachpost.com

For a grand total of $1.89 for copying and personnel costs. Unbelievable! It will be interesting to hear what Joel Chandler, tomorrow's High Noon in Lake Worth guest thinks of this. Click title for link.

Joel Chandler - Florida Open Government Watch 08/23 by High Noon in Lake Worth | Politics Podcasts

Join your host Wes Blackman as he welcomes Joel Chandler of Florida Open Government Watch to the High Noon in Lake Worth studios. This is an encore appearance for Mr. Chandler. The previous show has the distinction of being one of the most listened to episodes (over 3,000 listens) of all High Noon in Lake Worth shows! Mr. Chandler will share his recent experiences in testing Florida's open records law, review changes in applicability of those laws and react to the Greater Bay documents recently posted on wesblackman.blogspot.com. Note that the time for the live show will be 1 p.m. instead of the usual 12 p.m. time slot.

Click title for link to live show or for archived version after the show airs. Leave questions as comments below. Thanks!

Dizzying Pics of Hong Kong's Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods | Wired Design | Wired.com

Oh, the humanity! Shield your eyes those who think that tall buildings are the things of nightmares. These images are taken by a Hong Kong photographer who lives in one of the buildings himself. Click title for link and here is something from the article.
It’s important to note that while Hong Kong’s buildings look unwelcoming and claustrophobic, Wolf notes that many people prefer to live in them (if they can afford it) than commuting in from the countryside every day. It’s estimated that nearly 90 percent of people take public transit in the city.
In the United States, we’re spoiled with space. Even in New York City, where it can sometimes feel as though you’re walking on top of the person in front of you, we have the luxury of expansive parks and comparatively well-sized apartments. To live in Hong Kong is truly to live in a mega-city, where your apartment building can have a population greater than entire towns in Nebraska. It’s not for everyone, says Wolf, but it does lend itself nicely to the photographer lifestyle.
Now, this is what people think of when they hear "hi-rise" buildings. They don't think of it as being the difference between 4 and 6 stories. 

Wednesday, August 21, 2013

A loyal reader submits this observation from the August 6th City Commission meeting...

Carolyn Deli at the podium with testimony regarding how she is affected by not incorporating the height vote into the land development regulations. She lives in the Tropical Ridge neighborhood. This person transcribed this from the video.

The part about the dogs is just hilarious. She wants to stop buildings from being built so she can enjoy having breakfast with her dogs?

Anyhow, here it is:

"Forty-five foot buildings would bring a much higher density of people to that area that is currently mostly one and two story buildings. Most residents in this area park on the street and the added traffic could cause much friction and many problems. For me high buildings will also change the quality of life for the worst. Every morning I feed my dogs breakfast and sit on the porch and watch the sun come up behind the trees while they eat. A four story building behind my garden will mean I will have to go out onto the porch between 10 and 11 to watch the sun rise from behind the building. I understand we need more tax money in the city to function. I am not totally anti-development but there are plenty of empty properties which, if developed to voter accepted heights and encouraged by permits and codes that are more developer friendly as we seem to be doing will bring needed money in."

From last night's (8/20) City Commission meeting - City Attorney Evaluation


There is near universal agreement that the change to this law firm, from formerly using an in-house City Attorney, has been a resounding success. Things are getting done and not languishing for months or years - while the money went flying out the window. Mr. Torcivia recognized this and stated that he would prefer that money not go to legal fees, but actual staff and material that help the city do its basic municipal functions. Here, here!

9 Things About Pants Every Guy Needs To Know

Serendipity strikes again. Here's all sorts of considerations regarding men's pants, since we will soon have men's pants stores beating down our doors trying to get into our downtown. Click title for link.

All Aboard Florida seeks downtown Miami property for train hub - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

Plans for All Aboard Florida's hub in Miami are taking the shape of a mixed-use project. Click title for link to a Miami Herald article.

Last night's (8/20) City Commission Meeting - Public Comment on Unagendaed Items - Commission Responses


A lot of discussion about hotels and heights, especially after the 14 minute mark, as part of the response to public comment from the City Commission. Particularly note Vice Mayor Maxwell's observations towards the end of the video above. The discussion continues in the video below - there is quite an exchange between Maxwell and McVoy. By the way, Maxwell referred to the height issue as "political theater" - not the election or vote as political theater.

At 1:45 Commissioner McVoy starts a riveting discussion about the unlikely prospect of a men's pants store or a hotel in downtown Lake Worth - and misstates Commissioner Maxwell's assertion about the height issue.

Men's pant store?

From last night's City Commission meeting (8/20) - Commissioner Comments and Liaison Reports


Commissioner Amoroso talked about his attendance at the League of Cities conference in Orlando, meeting with Senator Bill Nelson and the State of the Cities luncheon. Mayor Triolo mentioned the League of Cities meeting along with a reminder of the impact of the "All Aboard Florida" fast train project and the cost of crossing upgrades. Commissioner McVoy mentioned the gathering Sunday evening in front of City Hall related to support for immigration reform. Vice Mayor Maxwell talked about the League of Cities conference and other impacts related to the "All Aboard Florida" project, a Comcast initiative to bridge the digital divide present in our community and his visit with Governor Scott in Lake Worth.

Marina Lofts Wins Approval; Rain Tree Will Be Moved - Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach - News - The Daily Pulp

This project consists of 960 apartment units and will have three TOWERS. One will be 33 stories and two will be 28 stories high. It will also require the removal of a 100+ year old rain tree. Click title for link to the New Times article which summarizes last night's Ft. Lauderdale City Commission meeting. Click here for an earlier article from New Times citing reasons that the project shouldn't be approved. Be sure to check out the architecture of the buildings.

Now, we had to listen again, at last night's City Commission meeting, how Lake Worth decided to be a "lo-rise" city in the election held in March. I'll have more comment about that when I post the video of that portion of the meeting. But since when was it decided, and by whom, that a four story building is a "lo-rise" building and that having a portion of a building with six stories is considered "high rise?" To use a favorite term of Commissioner McVoy, it is "disingenuous" to suggest that a six story building is somehow a "high rise" when the frame of reference for "high rise" buildings here are found in the downtowns of West Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale and Miami. This is the image residents have when they hear the words "high-rise" - they don't think of a six story building. This is why the vote and the "yes" campaign for the height limitation was misleading and confusing to voters. 

And there is no good place to address this, so I will do it here. There is also a blogger who insists that there was agreement at a meeting January 26, 2012 about 45 feet in height east of Federal, along Lake and Lucerne between the Planning and Zoning, Historic Resource Preservation Board and the City Commission. The meeting being referred to is known as the "Tri-Meeting." The meeting was a work session and no vote was taken. There was talk of consensus on many items during what turned out to be a long meeting. And, guess what? As reported in a previous post, there was no audio record of the meeting so no one can verify what actually happened. I do not remember coming to consensus on this issue and I know that the Historic Resource Preservation Board always recommended that the maximum height be 65 feet east of Federal as it was consistent with the historical pattern of development in that area.

And lets not let the matter of our Champion Tree go wanting for comment given the 100+ year old rain tree that is being moved as part of this Ft. Lauderdale project. As late as this Monday, I confirmed that the issue with the property owner and the city over the disposition of the Champion Tree has yet to be resolved and that the city's "legal eagles" are trying to find a way out of the morass. I'll let you know more as I find additional information.

Cities expect ‘steady recovery’ in ’14

This is from yesterday's State of the Cities luncheon put on by the Central Palm Beach County Chamber of Commerce. I attended the event, along with some other Lake Worth people. Both Vice Mayor Maxwell and Commissioner Amoroso was there. City Manager Bornstein gave the official presentation of what is going on in Lake Worth, along with the city managers from about 9 Palm Beach County municipalities. Click title for link to the article.
Eric Silagy, Florida Power & Light Co.’s president, was the keynote speaker.


City Manager Bornstein at the end of the row of City Managers. His presentation came at the end of the program and I was unable to stay due to another meeting beginning at 2 p.m. Sorry to have missed it.

Lake Worth commissioners amend ordinances to address blight | www.mypalmbeachpost.com

This is Lona O'Connor's piece on last night's meeting. I will have video from it going up throughout the day. Click title for link.

Tuesday, August 20, 2013

59% of the 'Tuna' Americans Eat Is Not Tuna - Christopher Mims - The Atlantic

What is your real tuna? Click title for link.

Part VI of the August 28 Closed-Door meeting

CITY OF LAKE WORTH
CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING
CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE

August 28, 2012


5:00 p.m. - 6:47 p.m.

7 North Dixie Highway
Lake Work, Florida

Appearances:

Pam Triolo, Mayor
Scott Maxwell, Vice Mayor
Michael Bornstein, City Manager
Suzanne Mulvehill, Commissioner
Chris McVoy, Commissioner
Andy Amoroso, Commissioner
Glen Torcivia, Esq., Interim City Attorney
Brian Joslyn, Outside Counsel

[FORWARD TO PAGE 75, LINE 5]

MR. TORCIVIA:  Everything we are talking about today, if there is this conversation, slash, mediation, and they come back with a number, whether that number is 750, 600 or 2 million, my intention would be to bring it back to you in another one of these sessions and say, This is their bottom line at this point.  I mean, their bottom line a year and a half ago was X.  Now, today, three months before trial, their bottom line is Y.  Do you want to accept whatever Y
happens to be.  Hopefully it's less than 750, and I don't -- and Brian is pretty sure it's not going to be 750.
MR. JOSLYN:  It's not.  I'll buy everybody at this table dinner if he to comes in at a million, okay?

MR. BORNSTEIN:  Restaurant of our choosing?
MS. TRIOLO:  Vice Mayor?
MR. MAXWELL:  I got to ask, if we are going to talk about the 30 percent chance, does the court determine what the award is?  Is there a formula based on certain aspects of law or --
MR. JOSLYN:  No, a jury would decide.
MR. MAXWELL:  So the jury could come back -- they could come back and say, Hey, we had a bad hair day and it's 30 million bucks?
MR. JOSLYN:  Could very well, but the judge then -- we have a right to ask the judge to reduce that, and I would think under the facts of the case that we present, that would happen.
MR. MAXWELL:  I don't think any reasonable person thinks they are going to --
MR. JOSLYN:  No.
MR. MAXWELL:  -- but my point is:  I'm looking to find out if there's a formula that is used to calculate an award.
MR. TORCIVIA:  It is an art, not a science, the way jurors come up with anything.
MR. JOSLYN:  Absolutely.
MR. TORCIVIA:  You know, I'm on the jury, I don't like him, I'm not going to give him a nickel, but I like him, I'm going to give him a million dollars.
MR. JOSLYN:  One other problem that we found was that the verdict form that we were using was unnecessarily complex, and probably led to some confusion and their willingness to just put a number together.  So that was one thing that we have completely changed, is the way we want to have the verdict form.
     It will be a straight up or down.  One side is going to win, or they are going to win a couple million bucks, tops.  I can't see -- I have not lived to regret saying these things so far, so I just have to assume probably my luck is going to hold, but I really think you guys have a tremendously strong case.  I really do.
     If I didn't, you would be hearing something different from me, okay.  I would be saying, For God's sake, please, you need to figure out a way to put more money on the table or get bankruptcy counsel.  I'm not saying that.
MS. TRIOLO:  Commissioner Mulvehill?
MS. MULVEHILL:  Two things.  One, I know a year ago, when we met before with the depositions, before all this information came in, you mentioned we had a 50/50 chance, so your probability has improved --
MR. JOSLYN:  Yes.
MS. MULVEHILL:  -- in the sense of our chances  of winning have actually improved?
MR. JOSLYN:  Yes.
MS. MULVEHILL:  This is a whole separate issue, but declaring -- we had declared a state of financial urgency, the City had declared a state of financial urgency and won that against the unions, so I don't know if that would have any --
MR. JOSLYN:  You would like to let that slip, wouldn't you?
MS. MULVEHILL:  That's why I am telling you.

MR. JOSLYN:  Look, everybody in that jury room knows that local governments are under extraordinary pressure, every one of them.
     They are all going to know their tax bills, they are all going to know -- I mean, you have to -- I will tell you this:  I have tried 20 jury trials, probably 25 cases like this in my career.  The juries are smart.  You think all you are going to get are migrant workers or something like that.  Every jury I have had has had accountants and stockbrokers and business people on it, and they are -- my firm belief is that a jury is way smarter collectively than they are
individually.
     When you have a consistent, easy to tell story, I just -- I think they get it.  I really do.  I have a lot of faith in jurors.
MS. TRIOLO:  Commissioner Mulvehill?
MS. MULVEHILL:  I have one follow-up, and this is just in the event that it does end up going to trial.  One thing that kind of -- when you said -- it just didn't feel right to me when you mentioned that you would go into the interview with the jury and say, Well, you know, Lake Worth's screwed up to kind of get their perception.  I would suggest that we didn't do it that way, that -- my suggestion would be we would ask them, What do you think about Lake Worth?
MR. JOSLYN:  No, no, no.
MS. MULVEHILL:  That's just my personal opinion.
MR. JOSLYN:  If you want a show of hands, you do it this way, I'm telling you.  What you want is people to hold their hands up.  Okay?
     And the way you do that -- the way you do that is:  How many here think that Lake Worth is -- because you read all the time that they are screwed up, did something wrong here, before you've heard any evidence, how many?
MS. MULVEHILL:  Before you heard any evidence.
MR. JOSLYN:  How many?
MS. MULVEHILL:  I just think you put it in their mind.

MR. JOSLYN:  I will tell you what, I had an immigration lawyer I defended one time that had been investigated by the federal government where they wired up his clients -- threatened them with deportation, wired up his clients to go into his office to try to get something on him.
     That case was dismissed shortly before a trial that he had been involved in the scheme to get immigrants over here to invest in businesses that weren't worth what they were worth.
     This guy was very slick, okay?  Handmade shirts, handmade shoes, but he was honest.  So what I did was I said -- the very first question I asked was:  I represent a Jewish lawyer from Palm Beach.  How many of you think he has done something wrong?  I got six people to hold up their hands, okay?  And it didn't hurt him a bit,  but those people didn't sit on the jury.
     And once they hold up their hands, you go, okay, now, you understand this doesn't have to do with the power plant, it doesn't have to do with this or that, does that affect your ability to try this case fairly, or you could do it the other way.  So as a result of your strong opinions, are you sitting here telling me you can't try this
case fairly, you are so prejudged against them that you can't sit fairly?
     I don't like to do it that way, because no one wants to admit that they're prejudiced, okay. You got to do it a different way, and there's a bunch of ways to do it.
     So that's why I have these guys, because as a commercial trial lawyer, I don't do jury trials but more than once a year or, so I'm not as good at picking juries as I am at trying the case, so I get the assistance I can.
MS. MULVEHILL:  Okay.
MR. JOSLYN:  But we will have all of that ready to go by the time this is --
MS. TRIOLO:  When do you think we could reconvene for a meeting after?
MR. JOSLYN:  Let me call or I will e-mail Glen.
MR. TORCIVIA:  What I will do, at your next public meeting, I will announce and request another one, and we will coordinate a date. We can always cancel it, but at least we will have it scheduled.
MR. JOSLYN:  Okay.
MR. TORCIVIA:  Maybe a month out from now might be a reasonable time, because you have to coordinate --
MR. JOSLYN:  One more suggestion I would just make overall, and this has nothing to do with this case.  The attorney has used -- on the other side has used the phrase shade session to refer to the
attorney/client session in December that we had. That is incredibly prejudicial, okay?

     I would just suggest to you overall, in attorney/client sessions now, just don't ever refer to them as a shade session, okay?
MS. TRIOLO:  I kind of agree with that myself.
MR. JOSLYN:  It's an attorney/client session, all right?  That was one of the things that they really picked up on, the psychologist that were doing the jury simulation, just -- and, you know,
     I hadn't thought about it one way or the other, but it's right.  It sounds shady.  It's the noun version of the adverb.
MS. TRIOLO:  Thank you, I appreciate that. Any other questions Commissioner McVoy?
Mr. McVOY:  You obviously know more about how to approach these things, but you mentioned that the Greer trial may play a role in this.  Could we come in later in the game, quite close to December 17th, and ask him, Do you want to settle?
MR. JOSLYN:  Oh, we could -- you could do it up till the day the jury comes back.
MR. TORCIVIA:  But at that point, you probably spent probably 100,000 of that 200,000.
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah.
MR. TORCIVIA:  Every day we are getting closer, he is preparing.  He did a great job preparing the case.
MR. JOSLYN:  It's -- I think we do it now and forever hold our peace.
     The one thing I will tell you is that since I haven't seen this guy in trial, I'm going to go up and sit in the Greer courtroom for a while and watch him for a couple of days, just to see, because I just want to know what we're really facing.
MS. TRIOLO:  I think you should.
MR. JOSLYN:  It's important.  He could be, you know, a real super star, and, you know, we will have to see.
MS. TRIOLO:  I know you all know this, but obviously it's called a shade meeting -- it's no longer called a shade meeting.  It's called an attorney/client session for a reason, but none of this information can be shared outside of this meeting, just a reminder to everyone.
MR. JOSLYN:  If any of you want to see any of this stuff, I can certainly one on one meet with you and show you anything you would like to see.
     If you want further additional information or something you want to discuss, you have a question, feel free to talk with the Manager and get the message to me if you ever have a question or anything like that.
     I mean, it hasn't happened so far, but if you have a question or something along the line, please -- or you hear something, you know -- I mean, I get e-mails from -- I'm sorry, I get e-mails occasionally from Mr. and/or Mrs. McNamara and a couple of other people, Hey, we just want you to know this, we want you to know that.  So if you have anything you've heard or you wanted me to
know, just let me know.  Just as long as we don't do it with more than one of you at a time, it's no problem.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  This is the second time I have heard your recounting of the long epic odyssey. Is that memorialized in any factual form that we can --
MR. JOSLYN:  No.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Not yet?
MR. JOSLYN:  No.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  It's quite a lot.
MR. JOSLYN:  It is.  I can put a timeline --
MR. BORNSTEIN:  No, don't, don't spend any time on that.  At some point, we'll get this transcript.
MR. TORCIVIA:  When the case is finally finished, because the case could be appealed, too, either sides wins or loses, so when it's finally finished, that's when this becomes a public record.
MR. JOSLYN:  But the transcript can be prepared now, correct?
MR. TORCIVIA:  She can prepare it, but it's not a public record until after --

MR. JOSLYN:  I understand, but I mean the Manager --
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Well, the question was, would any of you find that kind of handy for referring this in any way --
MR. JOSLYN:  You know what?  I'm sorry, I have an outline of the case.  It isn't as in depth with all of the facts, but that I do for an audit or inquiry response.  Let me find it, and I will e-mail it to you.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  If you e-mail it, it's still attorney/client?
MR. JOSLYN:  I always -- when I communicated with Elaine, I always said, Greater Bay Lake Worth case, ongoing litigation attorney/client communication.
MR. TORCIVIA:  I would suggest not e-mailing, only because e-mail is so easily accessed.  Put it in an envelope and mail it.
MR. JOSLYN:  All right.
     And closer to trial when I -- I mean, after -- I'm not ready to do an opening statement outline yet.  I've sort of got it in my head, but until I know what the two prime rascals have to say, I mean, there is not really a way to do the -- it's just a mass of facts that we have been living with so for so long, so --
MS. MULVEHILL:  Do we want to get a summary, just to be clear -- maybe, Glen, you can --
MR. TORCIVIA:  My understanding is that Brian is going to give the other lawyer -- kind of go fishing and see if there is any interest
whatsoever in trying to get it resolved.
     If there is any interest, we will reconvene at meditation, and hopefully get it resolved or at least a number to bring back to the commission as a whole at one of these sessions, attorney/client sessions, within the next month.
MS. MULVEHILL:  Very good, thank you.
MS. TRIOLO:  The meeting formally known as shade is recessed.
THE COURT REPORTER:  Are we off the record?
MR. JOSLYN:  Yes.

(Thereupon the proceeding was concluded at 6:47 p.m.)

From two weeks ago...

Sidewalk band-aids to bring attention to sidewalk conditions - Brazil

Jeniffer Heemann Placemaking Leadership Council Detroit Presentation from Project for Public Spaces on Vimeo.

Tuppens Marine Mural Project- Call to Artists

If you are a talented mural artist, looking for new venues and new challenges, then you may be ready to enter LULA's Tuppens Marine Mural Project. LULA's Mural Project is a multifaceted project designed to create commission jobs for artists, revitalize blighted buildings to strengthen the community and create art-based educational sessions through live art demonstrations.

The Lake Worth CRA developed a strategic approach, LULA - Lake Worth Arts, to redeveloping the district using art and culture as a tool for redevelopment, The mission of LULA Lake Worth Arts is to unify the existing arts community around a shared vision, implement goals for strengthening property values, improve access to the arts through educational programs and invest in partnerships that support creative community in Lake Worth.

For more information please log onto: www.lakewortharts.com

Monday, August 19, 2013

It's all about the friends you keep...


Mango Groves N.A. - Pick of the Crop

There will be a house of the month for September! At Long Last, the "Pick of the Crop" will be a house or garden that exemplifies what it is to live in Mango Groves... It might be a house someone had put some good effort into fixing up, it might be classic architecture, it might be a beautiful garden or yard....it might be ALL of that... If YOU know anyone who might fit the bill, please let us know!

Bloggers without borders...

Anti-PBSO and not afraid to share the fact...with others.

Man who robbed PNC bank in Lake Worth sought by police | www.palmbeachpost.com

This is the PNC bank branch on the north side of the Cultural Plaza. Click title for link to article. Please share any information you may have with PBSO.

Part V of the August 28 Closed-Door meeting

CITY OF LAKE WORTH
CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING
CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE

August 28, 20125:00 p.m. - 6:47 p.m.

7 North Dixie Highway
Lake Work, Florida

Appearances:

Pam Triolo, Mayor
Scott Maxwell, Vice Mayor
Michael Bornstein, City Manager
Suzanne Mulvehill, Commissioner
Chris McVoy, Commissioner
Andy Amoroso, Commissioner
Glen Torcivia, Esq., Interim City Attorney
Brian Joslyn, Outside Counsel

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MR. TORCIVIA:  There is always a risk with a jury.
MR. JOSLYN:  There is.
MR. TORCIVIA:  There is no 100 percent winner.
     So what would be your estimate, what's the percentage chance that we could lose or range? You know, is it a 10 percent, a 50 percent, a 30 percent?
MR. JOSLYN:  I think -- I never go higher than saying 70 percent probability that you're going to win.  I think you got a 70 percent probability.
MR. TORCIVIA:  And a follow-up question:  If they win, what's the range they could hit for?
MR. JOSLYN:  I think the range they are going to hit for is a couple of hundred, 300, $400,000, and here's why:  They are a brand new company.
     There is a whole series of law about lost profits. They are going to try to take your tenants out here and the rents they are paying to show that their financial projections were accurate.
     And you can't -- you are not allowed to do that.  There is some law that says you can't do that.  The financial projections they're working from are terribly defective, as Dr. Fishkind is going to point out at length to the jury.
     So I think the range is -- I think we hold them under a million bucks for sure.  I shouldn't say for sure.  I think we hold them under a million bucks if we lose.
     When I'm saying I don't go higher than the 70 percent probability of winning, that's my top -- I'm saying, I think I'm going to go into court, and we are going to conquer.
     So I'm -- the more I go on about this case and the more legal research we do on these little related and interrelated issues, I just think we have a very strong case.
MR. TORCIVIA:  You had mentioned the old mediation, and, you know, I always had a thought of do you have another mediation as we are getting close to trial before we spend that 2 or 250 --
MR. JOSLYN:  Right.
MR. TORCIVIA:  -- do we take one more shot at it.  So that's what I've been thinking about, is it worth going back to mediation and seeing what their bottom line number is.  I know it was 3 million a year and a half ago.  Maybe it's lower now.  Maybe if the Commission would be willing to authorize somewhere in the 7, 750 range, so you have little thing -- a little money in your holster, worse comes to worse, they say no.  At least we know --
MR. JOSLYN:  And they said they would take money -- I'm sorry to interrupt you.
     They said they would take money over time. It doesn't have to be -- okay.  If that's what you are inclined to do.
     Let me give you one more interesting factoid.  This attorney is -- was part of a group representing Jim Greer, the former head of the Florida GOP, and I think this attorney was doing some civil work for him in connection with his indictment.
     Well, Greer didn't have money to pay the criminal lawyers, they've all bailed, except for this fellow, and this case is going to be tried for free by him for a month in November before he comes to trial on this case and tries this one on a contingency.
     You don't go to trial in a criminal case for something like this that Greer is facing with any expectation you're going to walk your guy.
     Greer is going to be convicted, and the judge has already made some statements that we have pulled up out of the papers questioning his tactics, and has said on the record that some of this may come back to haunt you in effect of assistance of counsel claim.
     What I am suggesting is that this guy may not be at his best when he comes here to our town to try this case.
MR. TORCIVIA:  I'm thinking I am going to strike while the iron is hot.  He is going to be poor.
MR. JOSLYN:  Right.
MR. TORCIVIA:  And he may take less money now than a year and a half ago.  The economy has been in the tank for a long time.  He may need some money.
MR. JOSLYN:  And I have only seen this guy in court one time.  We only had one motion hearing. He generally appears by phone.  I have seen his depositions, and his depositions, I thought -- I don't know, I mean everybody has a different way of doing it, but I sure would have spent a lot more time than he did with all of the witnesses.
MS. TRIOLO:  What do we stand to gain going to trial?
MR. JOSLYN:  Avoiding judgment.
MR. TORCIVIA:  If you're going to trial, your best result is a zero.  If you are going to spend 2, 250 --
MS. TRIOLO:  And how much have we spent already to date?
MR. JOSLYN:  Bunch of money.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  I tried to get that number, but I'm over up over 600,000.
MR. JOSLYN:  It's a bunch of dough.
MS. TRIOLO:  $600,000 including the 2 to 250 --
MR. BORNSTEIN:  No, no.  That's up to this point, and then we have the exposure of carrying it the rest of the way.
 We --
MR. JOSLYN:  By the way, I would tell you this: I'm working at 275 an hour, which is almost half my hourly rate.
MS. TRIOLO:  Well, I'm not saying that --
MR. JOSLYN:  No, no, and I will tell you one more thing.
MS. TRIOLO:  I'm just --
MR. JOSLYN:  The index to your interoffice e-mails was 2,000 pages long, the index.  So it was -- the document thing at the beginning of this was like the living death so that's, you know, where we are.
MS. TRIOLO:  I understand.  I'm just trying to look at it from a loss standpoint.
MR. JOSLYN:  I agree.
MS. TRIOLO:  Vice Mayor?
MR. MAXWELL:  You are thinking that we are at 6, 650 already?
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Yes, sir.
MR. MAXWELL:  And if we sit down with them again --
MR. TORCIVIA:  That's what we spent in legal fees.
MR. MAXWELL:  Right.
MS. TRIOLO:  We will get to a million by the time we try the case.
MR. MAXWELL:  We are looking at $900,000 potentially just out-of-pocket, just to defend the case.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  With no way to recoup it, it's gone.
MS. TRIOLO:  There is nothing to recoup from this.
MR. MAXWELL:  Or we are looking at throwing more money on the table.  Let's take Glen's suggestion of 750, so that puts at a million 4.

MR. TORCIVIA:  You would save -- you would save about two.
MS. TRIOLO:  You would save 2 to 250.
MR. MAXWELL:  No, but 650 plus 750 is another four.
MR. TORCIVIA:  You're right, you're right.
MR. MAXWELL:  That puts at a million 4 if they take 750.
MR. TORCIVIA:  Correct.  So you be about a half million out-of-pocket from a win, but you eliminate the risk of them hitting for something, and there is always a risk.  You never know what a jury is going to do.
MR. MAXWELL:  Well -- and going back to the 70 percent, I'm just throwing this out here for everybody to kind of chew on, you know, the sympathy factor.
     The one jury that I observed -- am I allowed to talk about that?
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
MR. MAXWELL:  They didn't have anything nice to say about Lake Worth.  They started off with Lake Worth is, you know, this and, you know, they can't be trusted, and we were the bad guys.
MR. JOSLYN:  But I told -- but the argument was that you had misled them -- intentionally misled them.  That was my argument to the jury.
MR. MAXWELL:  Those comments I didn't think were born from your presentation.
MR. JOSLYN:  You think it's just Palm Beach Post stuff?
MR. MAXWELL:  You scared the crap out of me, by the way.  I was trembling, oh, God, we're screwed.
MR. JOSLYN:  I was honestly looking to see if his face was going slack on one side.
MR. MAXWELL:  And my point is:  These folks, before they get into the merits of your presentation, City of Lake Worth, they don't do anything right, and they are the bad guys.
MR. JOSLYN:  To address that issue, obviously it's a problem, but the people who assisted us with the jury simulation are going to be helping us select the jury.
     So we're going in with the idea of having professional assistance here, and trying to select -- we have also asked for a larger number of jurors than you normally get for your initial selection because of the Lake Worth issue, and the judge is going to give that to us.
MS. TRIOLO:  Commissioner McVoy?
Mr. McVOY:  In the voir dire process, is it legitimate for your folks to ask -- kind of ascertain what's their feeling about Lake Worth?
MR. JOSLYN:  Absolutely.
Mr. McVOY:  And they could get bounced if they say, Oh, that's that horrible place?

MR. JOSLYN:  Oh, yeah.  What I'm planning on doing is addressing that right off the bat.
Mr. McVOY:  Okay.
MR. JOSLYN:  Look, I represent Lake Worth. Everybody knows Lake Worth is screwed up.  Okay.
     How many people think that because Lake Worth is screwed, they have done something wrong here?  You will get a show of hands and those people will not sit on the jury, I mean, if you have something like that, you --
MS. TRIOLO:  My heart.
MR. TORCIVIA:  I always like to let my client know what's the bottom line before you walk into the courtroom.  That's why I like going back to mediation.  Let's see with this guy.  The real -- not that 300,000 wasn't real money, but if you authorize Ryan to go up to 750, hopefully you never get that far, hopefully they come to back at a number less than that.
MR. JOSLYN:  I got to tell you, I don't see that happening.  I really don't.
MR. TORCIVIA:  But you will know.  At this point, we only know 3 million.  3 million, there is no way we can recommend that, but until you go through that exercise, that mediation one more time, you just don't know what that number is going to be.
MS. TRIOLO:  City Manager had a question.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  I heard what you said at the beginning.  You don't think the $300,000 realistic, you know, in the sense that they are going to walk away from all this, but given all the factors you have explained, the attorney and the case you've made, you don't think that if you come back one last time in a real hard-nosed negotiation, and said, we are about to clean you, you are going to walk away with nothing --
MR. JOSLYN:  Here's the --
MR. BORNSTEIN:  -- here's $300,000 and reoffer it?
MR. JOSLYN:  This fellow has been practicing about eight years.  He's older, he's in his mid-40's maybe, but he has only been practicing about eight years.  He is doing this on a contingency.  He is doing it on the cheap.  I think he's going to put the numbers up.  He's going to badger Cara Jennings, and try to make her look bad and see what happens.  You throw it on the wall and see what sticks approach.  I think that's his -- that's his method.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  But if he's in a pinch right now, you offer him 300,000, what's the contingency basis percentage?
MR. JOSLYN:  He would be, what, hundred thousand on that?
MR. BORNSTEIN:  You can buy some milk with that.
MR. JOSLYN:  I would suggest to you that isn't enough.  It wasn't enough, and I don't think it's enough.  He's going to come -- he is going to come in and try to be big and bold, because when he was -- I was talking to him about this Greer thing, and I said, Oh, man, I said, you don't even do criminal law, do you, as a regular part of your practice?  He goes, Nah, but we are just going to go in and kick their ass.  I mean that's -- that's what -- the attitude you're facing.
MS. TRIOLO:  Commissioner McVoy, did you have a question?
Mr. McVOY:  I would like some clarification on the last --
MS. TRIOLO:  On the what? Vice Mayor?
MR. MAXWELL:  The way I see it, and, again, this is based on the off-the-cuff suggestion by Glen, not off the cuff, but we have two numbers we are looking at here, potentially three.
     You got one fourth to go back to like a 750 offer and they take it, or we have 900,000 with a big question mark or we have 900,000 with we have to pay something.
MR. TORCIVIA:  Right.
MR. MAXWELL:  Those are the three numbers we are dealing with. So if I'm correct about that, then that's really what --
MR. JOSLYN:  Repeat that.
MR. MAXWELL:  Right now we are at 650, plus a potential offer, let's say, three quarters.  That puts you at $1.4 million.  If we go to trial, it's $900,000 and a question mark.  Okay.  If we win, it's 900,000.  If we don't win, it's 900,000 plus.
MR. JOSLYN:  Right.
MR. MAXWELL:  Those our three numbers.  It's either 1.4, 900,000 or 900,000 plus, we don't know.
MR. JOSLYN:  Correct.
MS. TRIOLO:  Can we go back at them at 500?
MR. TORCIVIA:  And when I say authorize up to that amount, I'm not saying you put that on the table.  You go back to mediation.  That's in the back pocket.  You don't start there, just like they are going to start at 3 million again, and mediation --
Mr. McVOY:  You started at 300. Right.  You start at 300, you know, or, wherever.  You got to defer --
MR. JOSLYN:  You know, I don't know that I'd go back to them on a mediation.  What I think I would do is say, Do you want to take another stab?  I don't have a whole lot more money to give you, but I have some more money to give you.
MR. TORCIVIA:  If they say yes, then --
MR. JOSLYN:  Or if he says no, it's no.
MS. TRIOLO:  Commissioner Mulvehill?
MS. MULVEHILL:  That's the best dynamic that I've heard.  Ask them if they want to go to the table again.  That way we don't have to play our cards.  We don't have to show them any numbers, and if they say yes, we come to the table -- we go to the table.  If they say no, then we go to trial.
MR. JOSLYN:  I have a good enough relationship with this guy, I mean, despite his bravado, he's actually a very pleasant fellow and very honest, which is always refreshing, as you know, Glen.
     We have a very good relationship with the guy, so I don't know that -- if it's even possible, we may not even need mediation.
MR. TORCIVIA:  Right.  If he says there is no way, I'm trying this case, don't waste your time. If he says, I'm interested, then we sit down, and, you know --
MR. JOSLYN:  Exactly.  At that point, you bring the Manager or maybe the Mayor, and there is different faces, who knows, the dynamics may work.
MR. AMOROSO:  And that's something you will sit in on as our new counsel?
MR. JOSLYN:  I will do that.
MS. TRIOLO:  I would want you to do that.
MR. JOSLYN:  It's almost the more the merrier.
     I don't want to go in there by myself. Elaine was there last time and so was the City Manager.
MS. TRIOLO:  I would like to be there, too.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Time frames, if we do this kind of a deal, if you all decide to go this way, would that bump our schedule at all, or are you considering just doing it within the time frames we are working under now?
MR. JOSLYN:  No, doing it within the time frames we are talking about now. Let me just tell you, I've got --
MS. TRIOLO:  Do we have a consensus here on that approach?
MR. BORNSTEIN:  What happened with finishing -- getting it to trial now and later, what was the delay?  I wasn't clear.
MR. JOSLYN:  He was originally -- the Greer case was originally scheduled to go four weeks, the same docket we were on.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  It was his request?
MR. JOSLYN:  And God bless her, we have a real trial lawyer as a judge, and Judge Sasser, rather than having attorneys sitting around, she specially sets almost all her cases, so you know when you are going to trial.  She asked what dates were convenient.  His Greer trial got bumped after screwing us up on this docket, his Greer trial got bumped to November.  We said December 17th, does that work, we have got a whole week, and he said yes, she said fine, so we're set.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  All right.
MR. JOSLYN:  I was just going to tell you real quick, talking to Joe Krohl tomorrow, I have got two short depositions of the pool guys next Wednesday.  I have a couple of other depositions of people that he's listed that I'm not sure exactly why they're listed Thursday.
     And then one or two more depositions and then nothing until, I want to say -- yeah, October 29th we are deposing Mr. Willard for two days, at least, and Wednesday we are deposing -- of that week, and then the rest of the week we're deposing Mr. Steel.  So that week of October 29th all our trial prep will be done.
MS. TRIOLO:  What are looking at, though?
MR. TORCIVIA:  Hopefully the sooner the better --
MR. JOSLYN:  Well, I could give a call to chortle a bit about his expert being convicted, and maybe just do it at that point.
MR. TORCIVIA:  Okay.
MS. TRIOLO:  I would make a recommendation then that our City -- Acting City Attorney and attorney on the case, City Manager, myself, I would like to be there.  Would you like to be there Vice Mayor?
MR. MAXWELL:  No.
MS. TRIOLO:  We would like to go back and at least approach the subject to see where we are at before we continue on.
MR. MAXWELL:  I have a really silly question.
MR. JOSLYN:  There are no silly questions.
MR. MAXWELL:  Believe me, this is a silly question.  Is there any -- I will ask the both of you for your opinion.  Is there any evidence out there, statistical evidence, that speaks to the time of the year that you hold trials and the type of trials -- I'm thinking the week before Christmas, are people more festive, more forgiving, more -- you know, hey, you know, I just want to --
MS. TRIOLO:  It's not a bad question.
MR. MAXWELL:  No, that's why I'm asking.  This is being recorded, so I'm serious.  I mean, people want to get -- look, I got to get home, I got to do my shopping.
MR. TORCIVIA:  When I was a young lawyer, for, I think, seven out of ten years I had trials during the last week in December for some reason, including one with Allison Deacons (phonetic), he was a judge down in Miami.  We won all those trials, but I had the same fear every time that people are going to be generous with their money.
     The other side of the coin is they have spent all their money, but I don't know what Brian's experience is.
MR. JOSLYN:  I don't think it matters.
MR. MAXWELL:  Okay.
MR. JOSLYN:  I really don't think it matters in this kind of a case.  We are not talking about a braindead baby.  We are not talking about somebody who is quadriplegic a traffic accident caused by a
tire that they knew was defective.  This is a commercial dispute between two guys who couldn't perform to save their life and the City, who has problems from time to time that have no bearing on this --
MR. MAXWELL:  I feel better for having asked the question.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Do any of the witnesses -- I'm sorry -- that they are going to be calling, you mentioned Ms. Jennings, is that a high profile nature --
MR. JOSLYN:  Oh, I think they want to put her on the stand.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Because she just got --
MR. JOSLYN:  Oh, I know.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  -- in a scuffle with the Republican.
MR. JOSLYN:  Every day my associate goes online with list of people that are involved in this case to check social media.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Okay.
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah, we got that.  At least he wasn't on stilts this time, so you got that going for you.
     He wants to put her on, because she's a self-professed anarchist, but I actually -- quite frankly, I think Ms. Jennings is a pretty smart customer, and he is going to have a little harder -- because he didn't ask her enough questions in that deposition. Didn't you think? How long did that deposition take, an hour?
MS. MULVEHILL:  An hour at the max.
MR. JOSLYN:  On a 30 million-dollar case for the people you're blaming.
MR. TORCIVIA:  You would have been there all day.
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Hour after hour. Absolutely, yeah.
MS. TRIOLO:  Ms. Mulvehill?
MS. MULVEHILL:  I just had a question. So if I'm understanding this correctly, you have some things lined up towards the trial in the next couple of days.  I would just ask that we find out the answer to whether we could go to mediation or not before we spend more money on the case.
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah.
MS. MULVEHILL:  You know what I mean?
MR. JOSLYN:  I am going to call him probably tomorrow.  I was going to call him just to bust his chops about the expert.
MS. MULVEHILL:  Okay.  All right, because I know you have got a couple of things lined up.
MS. TRIOLO:  Yeah, I don't want us to keep moving on if there is a possibility we could --
MS. MULVEHILL:  Then we can have the Joe Krohl, all those other things --
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah.
MS. MULVEHILL:  If they are willing to proceed, then we go that direction.
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah.
MS. MULVEHILL:  I personally think that they are greedy, and it hasn't been brought up here, but I have shared -- mentioned it to you that they came to an event when I was running for office and
threatened a lawsuit --
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah.
MS. MULVEHILL:  -- if I won.
MR. JOSLYN:  Also, something he didn't get out of her in her deposition.
MS. MULVEHILL:  So that's, you know --
MR. JOSLYN:  Look, it couldn't be more clear, they were behind the eight ball -- couldn't be more clear.  I think it's very clear.  They were behind the eight ball on the site plan, because they had their original land planner threatening with copyright violation.  They have a meeting where they're discussing what they are going to do.
     What are they going to give the City, or where is the money they thought they were getting out of the pool, and how are we going to set up for litigation, and then you get elected, and within a week or two, we get the default letter that alleges the grounds that were in the memo, plus the Stratacon thing, which is like grasping at straws.
MS. MULVEHILL:  One more comment.  I think it be interested to find out -- you said there was a November 18th letter we had a runoff election in 2008 to see what date that election was, and was  it 24 hours after the election, was it a day before, to find out when it was clarified that I, in fact, did win that election -- you know, that the majority had changed.
MR. JOSLYN:  You were in a runoff?
MS. MULVEHILL:  I was in a runoff, yes.
     And one other comment I just want to make for clarification, because you mentioned the term hiring Stratacon.
MR. JOSLYN:  Yeah.
MS. MULVEHILL:  When I think of hiring somebody, I think of a company that has a desire, that they are out searching for somebody and they hire.  That was not the circumstance with Stratacon.
MR. JOSLYN:  Oh, I understand.
MS. MULVEHILL:  I know, but, I mean, just if this goes to trial, not to use the word "hiring" Stratacon --
MR. JOSLYN:  That's a good point.
MS. MULVEHILL:  -- because we just agreed to their offer.
MR. JOSLYN:  Sure.  That's a very good point,  thank you, and that will go into the trial file.
MS. MULVEHILL:  Thank you.
MS. TRIOLO:  Mr. Amoroso?
MR. AMOROSO:  Just briefly, you had mentioned they had come to you.  Did that come up in your depo with them?
MR. JOSLYN:  No.
MS. MULVEHILL:  I don't remember, but he was there.
MR. JOSLYN:  No.
MR. AMOROSO:  Now, did we depo her?
MR. JOSLYN:  No.  Why would I want to ask her questions that he didn't ask?  No, no, no.
MR. AMOROSO:  So that will come out at trial?
MR. JOSLYN:  It's one of these little legal landmines, yeah, just waiting out there to be tripped over.
     See, I think the lawyer set them up for this when in January he said, you could hire consultants.  They then accept -- they accept an analysis of the building without raising a peep.
     We have the e-mail transmission letter sending it to them, and then Stratacon is doing exactly the same thing three months later, and all of a sudden, it's the end of the world as they knew it. It's ridiculous.
MS. TRIOLO:  Commissioner McVoy?
Mr. McVOY:  I was just trying to think about the different scenarios, the monetary part of it, and I'm going to throw this out and hope that perhaps the two lawyers can give us some insight on it, but -- and this may be way off base, so I am perfectly fine being told that.
     Is it legitimate to think about the financial risks in terms of probabilities times amounts?
MR. TORCIVIA:  Sure.
Mr. McVOY:  There's a probability of losing, which our best estimate of that at this point is 30 percent.  The estimate for what would we lose if we lost is on the order of a million bucks.
MR. JOSLYN:  Certainly, I can't see on these facts, even if -- if everything goes wrong, I really just don't see them getting more than a couple million bucks, tops.  They are not going to get the full amount, because of the law and lost profits and new companies and all that stuff.
MS. TRIOLO:  Couple of million bucks, tops.
Mr. McVOY:  Hang on, I'm not done.  So let's make it two.
MR. JOSLYN:  All right.
Mr. McVOY:  Just to be generous.
     Two plus the .9 that we're in already, or we would be at that point, so that's 2.9 times .3.
MR. JOSLYN:  That's a --
MR. TORCIVIA:  30 percent.
Mr. McVOY:  30 percent times 2.9, plus two million -- or 2.1, to make it easy numbers.  That makes it 3 million, total, times .3 is just under a million, so that's our --
MR. TORCIVIA:  Risk.
Mr. McVOY:  That's our risk, is a million there, versus 1.4, which would be -- that would be a known number, if we give them 750, which is noticeably hire than that risk, and then there is a 70 percent possibility that we come out at .9.
MR. TORCIVIA:  That's right.
Mr. McVOY:  I think that's one possible way to think about the numbers.
MR. TORCIVIA:  Everything we are talking about today, if there is this conversation, slash, mediation, and they come back with a number, whether that number is 750, 600 or 2 million, my intention would be to bring it back to you in another one of these sessions and say, This is their bottom line at this point.  I mean, their bottom line a year and a half ago was X.  Now, today, three months before trial, their bottom line is Y.  Do you want to accept whatever Y
happens to be.  Hopefully it's less than 750, and I don't -- and Brian is pretty sure it's not going to be 750.
MR. JOSLYN:  It's not.  I'll buy everybody at this table dinner if he to comes in at a million, okay?
MR. BORNSTEIN:  Restaurant of our choosing?

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